Roxanne Tickle, a transgender woman, claims she was blocked from using the Giggle for Girls social media app after its owner and CEO Sall Grover proclaimed she’s a man.
She’s now taking on the company in Federal Court claiming she was discriminated on the basis of her gender identity.
The case is seen as a test of Australia’s Sex Discrimination laws which were amended in 2013 to include discrimination on the basis of sexuality, gender identity or intersex status.
The app’s developer Sall Grover is a prominent campaigner for women’s rights and campaigned for transgender women to be excluded from women’s only spaces. Among the legal team on the case is former Liberal party candidate Katherine Deves.
Tickle has outlined that she believes she has been discriminated against on the basis of her status as a transgender woman.
“I believe that I am being discriminated against by being provided with extremely limited functionality of a smartphone app by the app provider compared to that of other users because I am a transgender woman,” Tickle wrote in a complaint with the Australian Human Rights Commission, filed in December 2022.
“I am legally permitted to identify as female.” she said in the complaint.
Giggle responded saying that Tickle had been removed because she had been “considered male” based on her appearance in a photo she had uploaded. Giggle and Grover have said they were unaware that Tickle was transgender, and the company did not inform their decision to ban her from the app.
In court today, Justice Robert Bromwich heard that Tickle has lived as a woman since 2017, has a birth certificate stating she is female, and has undergone gender affirmation surgery.
Giving evidence on Tuesday afternoon Roxanne Tickle was asked to outline what ‘loving as female’ meant. She described the process of taking hormones, undergoing surgery and transitioning socially.
She spoke about getting her gender markers changes on government documents, spending money on her wardrobe, cosmetic procedures, and playing on a women’s sports team. The court proceedings were reported by The Guardian.
Barrister Bride Nolan, representing the Giggle for Girls app said the focus should be on biological sex rather than gender.
Nolan said founder Sall Grover had created to app in the hope of making “a little corner of the internet where women from all over the world could have refuge away from males”.
The court was told that Grover had experienced sexual abuse while working as a screenwriter in Hollywood, and this had subdequently inspired her to create the app.
In today’s opening statements Justice Bromwich heard that the app required users to upload an image of themselves would initially be accessed by artificial intelligence, and then later a human would review the sign ups.
Tickle has claimed that the app initially accepted her membership, but it was later revoked. She first downloaded the app in February 2021 and her membership was later revoked in August of the same year.
Human Rights Commission appears as a ‘friend of the court’
The case is before the Federal Court after Tickle’s complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission in 2021 could not be conciliated.
Representatives from the Australian Human Rights Commission, including the Sex Discrimination Commissioner Dr Anna Cody attended today’s hearing.
The role of the Sex Discrimination Commissioner in this case is as a ‘friend of the court’ (amicus curiae). In a statement the Human Rights Commission said Dr Cody will seek to assist the Court by providing submissions about the meaning, scope and validity of relevant provisions of the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (Cth).
“The Commissioner is not a party to the proceeding and has not made submissions about whether Ms Tickle was in fact discriminated against.” the Human Rights Commission said.
“Every individual, regardless of their gender identity, deserves dignity, respect, and equal treatment under the law,” Dr Cody said ahead of the case getting underway.
“Sex and gender identity discrimination are interconnected, not mutually exclusive. My role as Australia’s Sex Discrimination Commissioner is to address all forms of discrimination and advance gender equality in line with the Sex Discrimination Act and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.
“Gender equality means equal treatment of all genders, including trans people. When we recognise trans rights, we recognise the worth and dignity of every person and reject the harmful stigmas and stereotypes that lead to discrimination.
“We stand with trans communities and will continue to advocate for their rights and the rights of women. No one in Australia should face discrimination or exclusion based on their sex or gender identity.
“We must acknowledge and address the real barriers to enjoying human rights that face all women – including trans women – in Australia. Women continue to confront these systemic barriers, such as higher rates of domestic, family, and sexual violence, wage gaps, overrepresentation in unpaid care work and limited access to healthcare.
“We must focus our efforts on dismantling these barriers and creating a society where all women, including trans women, can thrive.” Dr Cody said.
Small protests staged outside the court
Two small groups of protesters gathered outside the court this morning as the case got underway.
Sydney University’s Queer Action Collective and activist organisation Pride in Protest said they staged their protest to show solidarity with Roxanne Tickle.
“This is a clear-cut case of anti-trans discrimination, and it shouldn’t be legitimised. This has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with the broader attempt to fear-monger around trans people, particularly trans women.” spokesperson Esther Whitehead said in a statement.
“These people are spreading entirely false narratives that members of our community are dangerous, talking of trans women as perpetrators or as a danger to women’s spaces.
“This couldn’t be further from the truth. Trans people, and especially trans women, are some of those most at risk of violence.
“In trying to set a legal precedent that trans women are not women, and further ingrain transphobia in our legal system, people like these anti-trans protestors are putting the trans community at even greater risk.
“It’s not only trans women impacted by this – plenty of cisgender women with more “masculine” facial features have been blocked from the app by Giggle’s AI. This means this app is not only transphobic but also deeply sexist.
“This app is telling us that women who aren’t ‘feminine’ enough aren’t welcome. That spits in the face of decades of feminist campaigning for women to be viewed as more than our feminine physical appearance.” Whitehead said.
A small group of women also appearing support for Grover and the Giggle team, they held up signs stating “Transwomen r Con-men” and “Adult Human Female”.
Justice Bromwich has ruled that the proceedings will not be live streamed online after a screenshot of a previous hearing was posted online with inapropriate comments.
“I appreciate the issues from this case give rise to strongly held views and emotions,” Justice Robert Bromwich said.
Decision to not live stream the case criticised
Rachel Wong, the CEO of Women’s Forum Australia, has criticised the court’s decision to not provide a live stream of the proceedings.
Appearing on The Rita Panahi Show Wong said she had only been able to hear today’s proceedings from the court’s doorway.
“The court room was overflowing today and there was not enough provision made for people who wanted to attend to actually hear the hearing.” Wong said.
“There’s wasn’t enough seats and the trial isn’t being live streamed which to be honest is actually quite shameful because this is a critical case for women’s rights both internationally and nationally.
“They haven’t made enough provisions for people to hear it and I think that’s really really unfortunate.” Wong said.
Host Rita Panahi said she was in one hundred percent agreement with Wong and that there should be “complete transparency” about the case.
Sall Grover says the term woman must be defined as “biological adult human female.”
Ahead of the case getting underway Grover shared her views with supporter Peta Credlin on her Sky News program.
“Women’s eights are actually really important in how we’ve gotten to a point in society where women are treated equally as human beings to men.
“To now be told that’s there’s really not any such thing as a woman, I mean anyone can identify into it, what’s the point of even having a category of woman in law unless it’s defined as “biological adult human female.”
“If it’s just a category that any man can become, it’s meaningless.” Grover said.
“It’s important to defend this because it’s obviously a disaster for women’s rights, but beyond that for me it’s also a disaster for freedom of belief, freedom of speech and freedom of association – and if we don’t have those in a secular liberal society, we don’t have anything.” Grover said during an interview on Monday.
The case could result in a rollback of transgender people’s rights
Dr Eloise Brook from The Gender Centre shared her thoughts on the case during an interview with Chanel Ten’s The Project.
“If Roxie was on the Giggle app and she was harassing people or causing trouble, then there already exist laws to help make sure that doesn’t happen.
“But she’s been excluded purely on the basis of how she identifies or who she is.” Dr Brook said.
Dr Brook shared her concern that if the case was won by Giggle and it resulted in the anti-discrimination laws being ammended it would result in a rollback of the rights transgender people have in Australia.
